In this episode of Against the Sales Odds, Lance Tyson sits down with Paul Bee, Senior Vice President of Ticket Sales and Service at the Milwaukee Bucks. The Bucks boast a storied NBA history, crowned by championships in 1971 and 2021. Remarkably, they achieved this feat in just their third season, setting a record for the fastest rise to the top in any major North American professional league. Paul shares his career journey in the professional sports industry, offering invaluable insights into his leadership style and philosophies. He reveals key strategies in pivoting for success, emphasizing the importance of adaptability in strategy and tactics. Guided by his principles of karma ("Good things happen to good people") and fate ("You'll end up where you're supposed to be"), Paul underscores the necessity of market analysis and timing. Discover how lifelong learning and a willingness to evolve have been instrumental in Paul's unparalleled achievements; get ready to unlock the secrets to sustained success in the competitive sales world.
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Pivoting For Success: Adjusting Your Career Strategy With Paul Bee
I'm excited about this episode of Against The Sales Odds. I have a person that I worked with when he was starting sales. I have Paul Bee on. He is the Senior Vice president of Ticket Sales and Service of the Milwaukee Bucks and Fiserv Forum. Paul, welcome back. We both got green on. We're in good shape. I was thinking about the call.
You're on brand. I love it. It looks good on you.
I appreciate it. Paul is a Senior Vice President. Who would have thought when we knew each other that you'd be running the major revenue piece for an NBA team? Before we get into your title, I want to give the audience perspective. When you started in the inside sales with the Cleveland Cavaliers, How many people were in that inside sales class with you? You were reporting up through Bob who's been on this show. How many people started with that?
I came in with 15 and they had another 3 or 4 that started maybe 4 or 5 months prior. It was just under 20.
How many people are still in sports now if you had to guess?
Two. Me and Dan Rosenthal.
Senior Vice President Of Ticket Sales And Service
You and Rosenthal were in. I think he's coming out of Indiana University if my memory is correct. I was speaking in front of a group from the Buffalo Bills. There are about 30 in the room. I said, “Everybody, look to your left and right.” Somebody said, “Why?” I said, “Only 1 out of 3 will probably end up being in sports. A lot of you'll be asked to leave and that's with any sales job and some will exit on their own.” It never ceases to amaze me but you played the long game, my friend. At least over half of the audience is in leadership in sales. Talk about your role right now. What are you responsible for? Talk about the scope of it.
I oversee the entire ticket sales and service team. What that means for us is we focus on full-season ticket revenue from renewal and a new sales standpoint. Partials and groups are premium both from a lease standpoint and a rental standpoint. The unique part about what we have here with Fiserv Forum is we own and operate the arena and the Deer district around it.
Pivoting For Success: Paul Bee oversees the entire ticket sales and service. We focus on the full-season ticket revenue from a renewal and new sales standpoint.
My team is in charge of selling groups for arena shows, premium for arena shows, as well as premium for concerts. We have our hand on everything including Marquette Men's Basketball, selling premium for them. We cover the whole entertainment here at Fiserv Forum and we've got a full staff that’s in charge of that every year.
Talk about your org chart because it's pretty vast. How many direct reports do you have and what does the organization look like underneath you?
I have two direct reports directly. I have our VP of Ticket Sales and Service and Premium. That's Jen. Also, I have a coordinator who pretty much keeps everybody in line and runs a show for us at a high level named Taylor. Jen has two directors who report directly to her. One director, Erin has the inside sales manager. Our group sales manager is reporting directly to her. Erin also manages our AEs. She's got ten account executives under her. Jen also has the Senior Director of Premium and Renewals, Matt Seu. He managed the premium sales team and then he has a service and retention premium service manager under him that has six premium service reps. Under that premium service manager, Tom, then has a manager of service of retention. He's got six service reps under him.
It sounds like about 40-ish.
We're like mid-40s as far as reps go and then from a leadership standpoint, I think we're at 6 or 7. There is one more report that goes to Jen. She joined us this year, our private events team. She has a manager who reports to Jen from the private events team. That manager has two on her team that do pretty much all the non-sports or entertainment-related events. Anything from your wedding to your company buys out of the arena for a day for a conference.
It’s a pretty big organization underneath you. If my memory serves me correctly, two years ago, you guys won the NBA World Championship.
Coming out of COVID.
I remember that. Talk about the arenas. It’s a pretty new arena with a lot of revenue opportunities coming to it. Like anything else, let's walk backward. Everybody is always wondering about their career journey and everybody wants to know what the path is. Talk about where you're from, where's home, how you got into sports, and maybe what that first role was, maybe school. What does that all look like?
I claim Michigan and I say claim because I was an Army brat. Both my parents are in the military. Once they retired, we moved outside of Kalamazoo to the West side of the state in Michigan. I spent fourth grade through my senior of high school there. I went to Aquinas College. I was a two-sport athlete for the first couple of years there. I played basketball all four years. I ran track the first two.
Like most athletes who want to stay in it, I realized those dreams were going to end soon. It didn't last for that long. I started looking around. I found the NBA career fair back then and got accepted to go. That's where I met Bob Svec, Drakes, and everybody. I had a few offers and decided I was going to go to Cleveland. Two weeks after graduation with that massive team of fifteen, I made the start there in inside sales.
You went from Michigan to there. What was your major? What did you study in school?
I had a dual major in Business and Communications. I wanted to make money and wear a suit. I did not want to work outside, so it makes sense.
You go to inside sales now. I'm thinking timeline. That's right when LeBron was starting. You and LeBron started almost the same year of your career. You just went on the business side of sports as opposed to two-point hoops.
He might have been there I think a year. That's when he started coming around. The lack of anything you can believe in, my first year was when we made it to the finals that year. We eked our way into it and then got swept in the finals. This is great. This is what sports is about. I soon realized that was not the case.
You're in inside sales. Just give everybody a perspective. The responsibility in inside sales in sports could be a B2B sale. It could be B2C. You're trying to move hospitality to fans and businesses across the board. What did you learn about yourself the first year in salesmen going in the deep end?
You remember. You saw me months into it. It was a very harsh reality check for me. I think most young sales reps, including myself, thought, “I'm going to come in. I'm going to kill it. I'm going to be number one. I'm going to be the star.” I was the polar opposite of that. In our first conversation, I think I told you how full season tickets are where you get your name.
Back then, different age, but you didn't get your name on the board until you had your first full season tickets sold. I was dead last out of fifteen and not dead last for a week or a couple of days. It was a month and a half. I remember sitting in the conference room with Sim. I’m like, “What am I doing? I'm busting my tail right now. What is it?”
I'll never forget it. He said, “Bee, you're doing everything we told you need to do. Just trust in the process. It is going to happen at some point.” At that point, I had nothing else to lose. I had no fallback. I couldn't go home so I just dive in. If you say, “Drink the Kool-Aid, I was in.” I loved what I did. I loved the people I worked with. It finally started to catch.
Trust in the process, and everything will happen at some point.
At any other point before this, are you playing hoops? You played in college, which not all people play hoops and you get to college. I don't care what level it is. It still is the tip of the spear at the end of the day. Have you ever been that far behind in anything before that because you’re not that far?
Not that far because I could control a little bit of basketball. That's athletic ability and that was me, but never like that. It was part of the epitome of what one could call failure at that point and the real gut check is I'm sitting there like, “Can I do this? Am I supposed to be doing this?” I think everybody goes through it that first year but it was real.
You're working from behind at this point. In your whole first year, you’re working from behind. What happens then? You knew one thing about yourself because I remember when you were younger, you were going to put the hours in. It wasn't like you weren't not working. You and I know plenty of salespeople don't put the effort in. I remember that about you. What started to turn it around a little bit for you?
Confidence And Persistence In Sales
Getting the first one was big. That was a huge confidence boost for me and I can do it. What started happening is the work you put in months before that, a little luck comes your way. A couple of conversations come your way. People started opening up a little bit more and then I was more confident. I started asking the questions better. I started listening better. That is the biggest part of that.
Also, things started coming down my way and then I caught a stride. Catching a stride for me, I wasn't the star on top of the board still. I would say I averaged probably top third or fourth, depending on any given day. I rode that and I enjoyed it. I love what I did. To your point, I'll work with the majority of the people around me.
It’s interesting when you say it, and not enough sales leaders even think this way but I think it’s profound. Everybody is always into the metaphor of sales of hunting. Part of sales though or a big portion of it is getting to that back 40 and planting. You got to hunt when you're hungry but at the same time, you're planting seeds, and what you've done before that, you'll reap the benefits.
My analogy is always like you're a hunter and a farmer. You got to be both. You got to go plow the back 40 and you got to go out in the field, maybe hunt something. It's both stuff like you said because stuff started to come to fruition for yourself and that's part of the job too. There is a patience to it. There's a fisherman mentality also. The other big thing is confidence. As you said, you start getting that confidence and then you take a little bit more risk. How long were you on that inside sales team?
I did about eight months and then was promoted over to the halfway point for a minute. I then got the opportunity to go into group sales. That was one of the things that I realized early on focusing on things that others weren't was a good way in the door. I started doing a little bit more group sales in the beginning not because I thought I was going to be a group sales. I wanted to be an AE. That was my scope but when the position became available.
There was an opportunity open in group sales for you.
It got me to stay there and I loved being there. I went over and it’s the same concept. I looked at some of the areas that weren't being done well or people weren't focusing on and that was the court time. I started going to all the college schools and that's where I made my lane. I doubled the book that I inherited at that point within that first year. I did that for about a year and a half and then I missed the competition. I miss hitting the gong like crazy so I went back to account executive because I realized pretty quickly I got excited about helping the next generation come through or the next class comes through.
What was the timeframe between group sales and AE?
I did group sales for a year and a half and then went back over.
You put your time in on that one too. For every industry, group sales is an important part of any sales organization. It fluctuates based on how popular the team is sometimes too. You're half event planner and half salesperson so it's a different role in and of itself. About a year and a half and then you rolled into AE.
Pivoting For Success: Group sales are an important part of any sales organization. It fluctuates based on how popular the team is.
I went back to AE and polished my skills back from looking at it even from premium down to full season tickets at a higher level because I figured it helped me be more marketable. If you remember that timeframe, I was there for the decision. I had my desk ready to make a lot of money. We all know what happened with that. The smoke started to clear a little bit. I felt I was there and ready for management.
One of my colleagues got the opportunity for an inside sales manager there. I learned from it and realized that when people started saying, “We thought you were in,” I knew I was close. I was dating my wife at the time. She was in Detroit and I started putting out feelers. Drakes was gone at that point. Chad was gone. I asked Drakes, “What do you know about what's going on in Detroit,” just to check the landscape.
A week later, Sarah Daniel called me who was with the Revenues at the time. They were starting a group sales team, which I thought everybody operated like Cleveland. I was so naive too. I was like, “They didn't have a team for group sales. If I could help start a department.” That's the next best thing at least in my eyes. That's when a lot of the executives had come down from the palace at the time to join the Red Wings as they started looking at the new arena and all the things.
I got the opportunity to join them. After four and a half years in Cleveland, I made the move to Detroit for the Red Wings, Olympia Entertainment, and the Detroit Tigers. That was another slap in the face because I learned to do a little research before I took lateral moves. I learned to ask important questions so I know all landscapes of things but it was great. It was perfect timing, right before the transition was officially about to take over. That's when I got my first management gig at inside sales. As they started, their regime time, they officially made the changes necessary.
Just to be clear, you went over to the Red Wings as a salesperson to start the group. You had the design to it, but it still wasn't a management position.
It was open and the opportunity to change the landscape of what was going on there.
In that process of designing the group sales team or the group sales effort, what was hard about that? What was the win there for you?
Building A Sales Team
It was where to start because I came from something that was so well-established and locked in. You had your niche. You had your area and focus points, but it was a literal blank slate at that point. You know hockey. I know your sons play and hockey is gold up there. Little Caesars Hockey and that whole Youth Hockey Movement was the main point but pretty much everything was wide open.
It was, “Where do I start? Where's the smart play to start with? Where can I start to build on,” because I want to do everything, but it's almost impossible unless you're not gone do it well. It was taking a step back and slowing down. I learned about planning. I learned about strategy and how to set up my own day. As a rep, I could just fly and run. With this, it took a little more patience and time.
How long did you do that? Also, you said you got the opportunity to start to lead a group team or inside team.
It was about a year. We got the group sales department up and running at a pretty high level. I think we went from 13th in the league down to 5. We were moving at a high clip. When inside sales management became available, I interviewed for that and took over a program. They had an established group, but it wasn't the same as what I had come from. Any of my ideas of let's train, let's focus on the specifics and the A, B, and C's of what to do when you are prospecting. That was all brand.
Let's focus on the specifics and the ABCs of what to do when prospecting.
I think that's when I got the call from you and we were doing stuff in that club that smelled like beer.
It’s the Olympia Club.
It was Joe Louis. That was good stuff. I think I even remember where I parked that one day.
Right outside the door. The one up that had a window.
A Strong Team Culture
That's exactly right. I remember that vividly. You start getting into a more formal management position. What was your philosophy? It sounds like you're in this scenario where you have to redesign that a little bit too. Just so everybody knows, the Cavs at one point were one of the original blueprints of an inside sales team in pro sports and entertainment. Paul had come from this place that was very well established with deep roots to now you're having to create, invent, and all those things.
They had good people there and the management team pushed and said all the right things but I think there was another layer that hadn't been established there that they were used to. The Cavs in me or the military in me was like, “We got to go.” We don't have time to hope that things are going to happen to fall in our lap. The Red Wings knew who they were.
I think that would've been a twenty-year in the playoff win streak or twenty in the playoff streak that was still going. For me, it was saying, “Let's recalibrate. I need to know who I have and what I have first and foremost.” For me, it was a stretch. I learned pretty quickly that I wanted good people around me. I've carried that throughout my entire career. It’s that I'll take a group of good people who want to work hard over your “sales shark.” What I saw and I learned pretty quickly is that even if you have somebody that's selling top level, if they're cancer, if they're a jerk, they don't care about the job or they think they're above, it doesn't work well. We had to do a little bit of some shifts about personnel.
Pivoting For Success: Paul Bee will take a group of good people who want to work hard over your "sales chart."
It sounds like you knew the profile of a person that was going to be successful or at least, who you wanted to work with. I'm with you. A lot of times, it’s who you want to work with and can I work with this person? If we share certain values, they're good people however you're rating that. They're good citizens and they're willing to put effort in. I can work with them at that level. You're there for how long? What's the next position there or what's the position out of there? That’s what I'm trying to track.
There were a couple of different spots along the way in Detroit and amongst all this is the outgoing of Joe Louis and starting to build and market Little Caesars Arena. That was an awesome project to be a part of and I was drinking from a fire hose for five of those seven years I was there. After the first year, a year and a half or so, they added in group sales under me.
I was a group sales manager and inside sales manager, which is great. It’s just more responsibility and a piece of the pie that I focused on. Eventually, I think it was another year or year and a half or so, they added in a director title under me, so I had the account executives as well. Essentially, at that time, I oversaw all new business outside of Premium as we were going into Little Caesars Arena. I was there for seven years.
How did you start to evolve as a leader? What were some things you added to your strategy? Now the groups could start to get bigger. You probably have 15 or 20 people underneath you.
A lot of it was learning what real accountability looks like and it was a difficult lesson to learn from me because as I became director, these are now people that I was selling next to at one point in time. How to manage friends and manage people who were once colleagues and understand common respect and learn that you can't manage everybody the same.
That was very quick because I had some veterans who had been there for 10 or 12 years. I had people that have been there for ten weeks and understanding I couldn't just blanket managing everybody the same. You got to know how they tick. You have to know what motivates them, know what doesn't motivate them, and understand. The blanket term is that we all have to join and be a part of. Also, it’s learning what motivates everybody. Keep everybody at least on a common target so we can all work and achieve those goals together.
Learning what motivates everybody keeps our body on the common target to work and achieve those goals together.
This is interesting too because so many leaders try such a broad stroke with motivation. At the end of the day, motivation means from within. The job of a leader is to understand what motivates each member of the team. Sometimes you may have some similarities, but most of the time it's like a fingerprint. It's a signature. Who can you press on? Who do you need to be a flower with and encourage a lot?
Everybody is different that way because there are some people you can press on and there are some people you can't. You have to know where that gear is. At the same time, it sounds like when you first came on that planning and strategy came into use because you had to do it on repeat right up into the planning for that new stadium. On top of that too I would say from a culture standpoint, working for the Red Wings, the Ilitch are a very successful family being in the Little Caesars business and two different sports teams.
From an accountability standpoint, they had an eye for hitting certain financial metrics too to make sure things were successful. Talk to that because that's a different level of accountability. Everybody is different. Everybody looks at how you spend. How did that affect how you made decisions? They were looking at specific metrics and certain financials. What did that look like for you? How did you have to change or look at it differently?
For me, it was understanding the big picture of where money needs to be applied to being careful. That was the first when we thought about budget. Cleveland and I didn't have any wherewithal like, “We're doing all these events, celebrating all the wins, and that's just normal.” It’s not always the case. As you said the owner is very financially aware of where we stand. I had to pay attention to what I was doing.
I couldn't budget for all these crazy contests, but I could do little things. The little things that show that no, we're going to fight together and then we're going to celebrate the wins. It was a bit of a culture shock from where I had come from but explaining the why was a big part of that too. They say, “Let's do more events. If we do these events, that's going to cost X, and if the return so far has been Y. Let's focus on getting a couple of big ones, hammer that, and kill it over a bunch of little ones. We might have minimal success or not that we need.
For me, it was understanding real budgets and business finance. I could do sales. I could understand what we needed to do and focus on from a sales standpoint but when you got a new arena being built, you got a fifteen block of district of entertainment being built at the same time and we spent over $1 million in the previous center, how does all that interact and using our time and our money in a wiser fashion?
Pivoting For Success: Understand the real budget business finance over sales.
I think what you're saying also too is there's a financial perc precision. You weren't just one side of the house driving revenue. You were responsible for showing a return on it. Most people know what sewing is. Most people don't understand that. Sewing is not hard. Threading that freaking needle is hard. That's the hard thing to do. That's what it sounds like you ought to be focused on. I can even remember you and I talking about commissions. We were talking about all kinds of stuff that you were like, “I got to pay attention here. I got to defend myself.”
I think you and I had one conversation. I said, “These folks are pizza people.” They knew exactly what the ingredients cost to make a pie and they knew exactly what the return is. I told somebody else. I think I told Dave Baldwin. I said, “That's a different financial model. It doesn't make it wrong. It doesn't make it right. It makes what it is,” but you need to understand that to run the business. As you said, it's a big boy budget at that point.
I got real people to answer to. That's for sure, but it was a great experience. It was very eye-opening. I learned a ton with it.
I've forgotten too. You launched off of that right up into the new arena and the next move was Milwaukee. You were right into another couple of year periods. You go from there and you leave Ilitch or essentially the Red Wings, Olympia, and Detroit Tigers ready to build Little Caesars Arena. Had they started groundbreaking by the time you had left?
We had broken ground. I got to see all the red carpet, all the grand opening and everything. My last event there was the third event that they had at Little Caesars Arena. I've seen all the things and got to see it come.
You saw the launch and then you get an opportunity to go to Milwaukee. What role is that?
Transitioning Into A Leadership Role
I came in as Vice President of Ticket Sales at that time and that was under Jamie Morningstar. I had a colleague who was the VP of Service. Jordan and I at the time split sales and service and then we both reported directly to Jamie Morningstar who was the SVP here at the time.
Jamie sees your talent and she knows that they're going to be opening Fiserv Forum. They had the name then and the name rights done but how many years out was that for you?
That was about a year. I saw the last year at the BMO Harris Center that was here for decades. For me, it was the sweet spot because I remember the madness we had to go through from moving all members into Little Caesars. They'd already done that here so I just got to focus on pulling in the new revenue, which is a dream for me at that time. It was a fun project.
You didn't have to go through that piece. Essentially, parts of the new arena were sold or some things were sold and you were inheriting, threading the needle again, getting it all away, and getting it online.
I had Premium under me at that time, which is the one piece of the business that I had a main focus on in my career yet. That was alluring. They had a majority of things sold and leased out. Those are the first ones you want to go to, but I got to be involved as the last couple fell as far as our suites and our loss. Also, you’re hitting the franchise record at the time, which was 10,000 fold. We'd never had that before.
I got to plan a celebration for that. I threw the whole champagne thing in the plaza. It was a lot of fun. It is challenging and I wasn't here in the beginning of it, but understanding what that meant for the organization when we did hit that 10,000. We had leadership literal tears because of the blood and sweat that they had to get there. It was cool to help put the period on that to get into the new building.
What was the mindset shift from going from a director level for yourself to you are back at the NBA? What was that mindset there?
It was understanding even leading leaders is different because when I got here, there were a handful of guys that have been pretty well established. They've been here for a handful of years. Some in the very beginning of the uptick to get where we were years ago. It wasn't too long. Previously, they had 70 sales reps in three different locations around downtown. Also, to understand where they came from and you know how it goes.
Some people were ready for the spot that I was able to get. I think Jamie said that the ears and eyes, just different mindset was helpful, but understanding where we needed to go from the NBA mindset was helpful as well. For me it was listening, seeing what the landscape was, and understanding the people first and foremost. As I told them in my interviews, I'm not here to change anything. You guys are a well-oiled machine. I just want to help.
I think breaking down those barriers of any time you get a new guy coming in, a new person coming in, everybody's got the preconceived notions of their background, and what they're looking for. I was like, “I just want to help make this thing great.” I think that was an eye-opener for me because you got to take a step back and watch. You can't just come in and kick down the door.
You have to take a step back and watch. You can't just come in and kick down the door.
You're saying though that you had some people that were eyeing that job that had been there for a while so it's that meritorious like, “That could be my role.” I'm not saying this happened, but this is anybody. You have a lot of probably daggers ready to go as soon as you walk in the door and any leader that says there's no politics, there's always politics. I remember saying to Mike Andreco one time. He says, “I don't like to play politics.” I go, “Get out of leadership because you got to play politics because humans are political animals. You got to play that a little bit.
You had a watch saying, “I'm not going to come in here gangbusters and freaking change everything. I want to plug into this.” It’s interesting. Jamie is much different than Tom. Jamie is a fire burn. I've had her on this. I've known Jamie for years. She certainly has a freaking opinion and she's going to tell you whatever her opinion is and she's who she is. What was the difference there working with Tom and Giz is much different than with Jamie.
It was great because she'd come from Detroit as well. She knew Tom and Giz’ MO. She knew where I was coming from, but for her, it was right from the beginning because of our mutual connections of friends through Dan and people. I had to trust immediately with her. She doesn't pull any punches. She'll tell you straight up and I appreciated that.
You see the punch coming. She's not going to hit you from behind. It's coming with a right cross.
It’s real and I respected that because I told her, “I'm not going to come in and pretend I know all. I'm going to do what I think is going to work or we're going to communicate but the minute it turns a different way, say it,” and she did. I learned a ton from her. She gave me the autonomy. Once I got the lay of what we had and what we didn't, she gave me the keys. She said, “Make changes that you think are necessary. Anything that affects the big picture, let me know about it,” but she didn't have any handcuffs on. She wanted to be in the know and that was good.
I learned an important lesson about how to manage up to somebody. One of the most important lessons and I think she said a couple of times while she was here is that I never let her get surprised by anything because she had so many top-level things happening. She couldn't be dialed in with all the reps and all the leaders, but my job was to be the connector of, “We're doing this,” or “We got a dumpster fire around the corner. Here's how we can get ahead of it. What do you think?” That was an important key for me.
You get this the stadium online and then Jamie leaves and then you have another leader come in. Talk about that because I've never realized this. At this point, you had significantly different styles of leadership that you've had to manage up to. Raven comes in at that point.
The first three years in the new building, two-ish or three-ish, COVID hits and everybody is trying to figure out life at that point in time. During COVID, I had been promoted to Vice President of Ticket Sales and Service so they added Service under my title. Two weeks later, Jamie says you got MSG, and then that's when pretty much Raven comes in right before Jamie leaves. Raven is here and I've known her for years through team-bowing things. That was awesome to work on her.
They said, “We're going to hire this new department head. Go for it.” I went for it. I interviewed my tail off. Full transparency, I knew there were things I had not had expertise in yet but I'm very confident in myself that I will figure it out if I get the opportunity. During that time, Jamie Weinstein did receive it and that was okay.
Jamie came in. I didn't realize that.
It’s how the universe works. The industry is crazy small. As you know, I have known Jamie for years. I recruited against her. I was an inside sales manager and she was down in Orlando. I pinged her a couple of different times. I think I even tried to get her to come here. When I first got to Milwaukee, we had some positions that were moving around. I was very well aware of her. When I knew it was down to her and me, I told my staff. I was like, “Depending on what they're looking for, I think it's 50-50,” because we're different.
We manage differently. We have different expertise. When she came in, I was like, “If I couldn't get it, working for a friend is the next best thing for me,” and we hit it off right away. You're 100% right. Both Jamie's joke about being a boss from me, but they're different people but awesome too. I learned different things from both of them.
Jamie Weinstein's an incredible human being. I am a big fan of hers. I forgot that move. I couldn't remember if your peers or both. Now, things evolved as we bring this down for a landing. Jamie has moved on or you've gotten promoted up or however that shakes out. Now as you're the senior executive, there has been a little bit of an ownership shift that changes things. What are you leaning into with your leadership now back to your past and what new skills? That's what seems like you've been this master of making these not-massive shifts. It seems like these adjustments to meet the situation. What's the next adjustment you had to make?
The corner we're about to turn now and I know you probably heard the conversation many times right now is that the NBA as a whole or as a league is looking at full-season equivalents that matter more than just the fulls. I think for decades now, full-season tickets are gold. That's where everybody needs to be. This is a healthy book of businesses and the whole nine yards. Now, it's re-exploring that and they're talking more from an FSE standpoint.
How are we looking at our goals? How are we looking at revenue generation? There are some implications there from full to partials. We're trying to see how we make that work for our business needs. I know some teams. You mentioned a few. I have flipped just full partials and only doing partials alone. Some have done mixtures of that. I don't know if we've turned the leaf of going directly one way or the other, but we have to take in the right direction and that seems to be it.
I have some strategy involved in looking at our staff because, in the last five years, we've been pretty spoiled. You got a new arena, you got a worldwide all-star who's coming to his own, a two-time MVP who won the championship, and even the last year, we get Dame Lillard. Those kinds of things give a little bit of false pretense. We earned everything we got but I think some reps, some staff members, and even some leaders might be in the mindset of, “We will get this done operating how we've always done it.” I let them that people have to fight every year to get to where they need to be and we are just on the cusp of that so we need to change our mindset.
Talking to you and then talking about how we're looking at it from a B2B standpoint, you're right. It is a small movement, but everybody has to jump on board and understand. We can't look up and be like, “We missed the mark just because we didn't make adjustments.” Now, I'm learning lessons on how to think not just three months or even eight months down the road. I'm thinking 1.5, 2, or 3 years down to where we need to be. Good or bad, that happens.
It sounds like or a big part of your career, you've been looking internally at the talent and things you've had in that process. Now, being at the helm of where you are, you're having a lookout at the marketplace and trying to time the market and read the market. Even what you said about the NBA, may be different from Milwaukee. That's a global reach but you have to have a local touch and market shift. It’s interesting, Paul. If we go back to the theme here, this has all been an adjustment of strategy and tactics for you every single time. From the time you take that detour at the Cavs first and then take the detour over, you have to figure out, “How am I going to do this?”
The strategy it takes with your experience on the new stadium and then to get into it and then the strategy you have to take, you have a change in leadership, ownership, and focus on markets. That's an interesting theme. I've never thought about that piece. I have even more of an appreciation of where you come from, but it's an outward look that way. A couple of thoughts. If you had to sum up your leadership philosophy in a cliché or a mantra, what would it be? If you had to put it on a billboard, what would it be?
I tell you, it's a two-part answer. One, I live by three things. I live by good things that happen to good people, you'll end up where you're supposed to be, and everything happens for a reason. If it just has to be one flat-out sentence as far as how I lead, I'll say people matter.
When you're getting into a big business deal or something, what's that song you're playing in your head? What's that beat that's going on? I got 2 or 3 of them that play all the time in my head but what's in your head?
There are three, depending on what it is exactly that I'm about to step into. With big deals, it’s U Don't Know about Jay-Z because his lyrics in there resonate with sales so much. I think he even says, “I'll sell ice in winter. I'll sell fire in hell. I'm a hustler baby. I'll sell water to a whale.” I'm like, “That's it.”
That is. Mine is Black Sheep’s This or That. You and I are similar there because both of our songs have to do with sales itself in the lyrics. I got to go listen to his lyrics on Jay-Z’s song. What are the other ones?
That's the main one. I think when I don't know what I'm getting into, but I know I'm going to close something, it's a Welcome to the Jungle, believe it or not. I get to get the blood going a little bit with that one.
That's a good song.
You can play that pretty loud and you know what's coming if that happens. The last one is I'm a big OutKast fan. Bombs Over Baghdad gets me amped up a little bit. Those are my main three.
If you had to gift a book, what book would you give?
It's going to feel like I'm sucking up to you, but it is the first sales book I ever got, which was How to Win Friends & Influence People.
It's a good book.
I read it over and over again every single year. You said it when you gave it to me and I didn't believe it. I was like, “No way am I going to read this 5 or 10 times,” but it has every couple of years. It's still all relevant and I think that's what's helped me so much.
The stories are old as hell in there and you're like, “That's still real. I can smile at somebody.” I can 100% tell somebody they're doing a good job. I cannot argue this. Think about your kids' age now and just say you had a niece or nephew who is 7, 8, or 9 who said, “Uncle Paul, how do you define success?” What would you say to him? Remember, you got to give it in a 7, 8, or 9-year-old answer.
I’ll them, “Do what makes you happy. If you're able to find peace amongst that, you're winning.”
Well said. A way to bring the bird down for a land here. Thank you so much. Paul Bee, SVP of Milwaukee Bucks and Fiserv Forum. Thank you for being here, my old friend. I'll see you soon.
It's been a pleasure. Thanks for having me.
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