In this episode, Lance Tyson sits down with Travis Pelleymounter, Senior Vice President of Ticket Sales and Service at Vinik Sports Group, to discuss powerful insights on sales leadership. They explore the critical balance of people and process in driving exceptional results, with Pelleymounter drawing on his extensive sports industry experience. Discover how sales leadership goes beyond setting strategies—it's about cultivating a strong team culture, aligning processes, and building lasting client relationships. This engaging conversation reveals how effective leadership can lead to consistent sales success and sustainable growth.
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All About Sales Leadership: People Plus Process Equals Results
Introduction And Casual Catch-Up
I'm really excited about this episode of the show. We're talking pre-game. We've known each other for about ten years. This is a person who has converted me over to being a fan of their team, so I will wear some Tampa Bay Lightning logo. I have Travis Pelleymounter on. He's the SVP of Ticket Sales and Service for the Tampa Bay Lightning and Vinik Sports Group. We've had a lot of leadership conversations over the years.
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Welcome to the show.
Thank you so much. It is a pleasure to be here. We have had a lot of those conversations and I always enjoyed it. Now, we get to do a recording of it.
That's exactly right. I think about our relationship through the years. Before the call, I thought that out of all the people I have strong relationships with who are customers, you and I have probably gone back and forth more about culture and the effect of sales leadership culture than anything. I can remember the way we would roll things out. You would always be like, “We got to think of culture and how this is going to go.”
Let's make sure we talk about that. I know we didn't talk about that in the pre-game, but that is something that was in all those lunches and breakfasts. You're very people-centric first. You don't get to the level you're at unless you are people-centric. You hit numbers. We're going over that. You’re results-oriented, but it's always people first with you, isn't it?
The Importance Of People And Process In Sales Leadership
Absolutely. I'm glad you brought that up because there are many different approaches to sales leadership. You almost nailed it. I don't know where I heard it, but I ascribed to the equation that people plus process equals results. If you just pay attention to the results side of the equation, you're never going to win, or if you only pay attention to the process.
It starts with the people. The people are selling your tickets. The people are selling your products. Get the right people. Make sure you build a strong culture and then grind on the process. Make changes where you need to. You almost don't have to check the results. Since we're sales managers, we always check those results, but I can't change the results without the right people.
Fostering a strong team culture is the key to long-term sales success. Invest in your people and processes.
There's no doubt. In the pre-game, we were talking about some alumni. Without naming those folks, there's probably a grind on some of that stuff at times. It was that kind of debate. People support a world they helped create at some level. That always resonated with you. From an audience standpoint, we get a lot of leaders that tune in to this, as well as a lot of salespeople from all kinds of industries. Can you describe your role? What's the mission of your role? Get into what your organization looks like underneath you.
I always try to keep it really simple. The way I approach my role and then approach what we do with our team is my job first is to fill the building and make everybody happy. I know that sounds simple, but I'm fortunate here that we are pushing 370-plus straight sellouts, selling hockey in Tampa. It takes an entire team or an entire organization.
That’s pretty top of the industry, though. You're verging against the AHL Hershey or the Boston Red Sox. They own some serious amounts. That must be the top five sellouts, at least.
We’re not sure where it is. We're super proud of it. It's the community. It's the organization. It's everybody behind. Hockey is woven into the thread of Tampa. I got here in 2012. Not long ago, it was my twelve-year anniversary with Vinik Sports Group and the Tampa Bay Lightning.
Congrats.
Thank you. It has been fun to watch the rise of the little engine that couldn't. We've won two Stanley Cups. We've had a lot of success on the ice. On the business side, we've been successful, too. I'm really proud of all the teammates that I work with. What we get to do every day, in its simplest form, is fill the building, make everybody happy, and keep them coming back.
That's right.
Where it gets complex, and people plus process equals results, is having those right teammates and making sure that you can communicate across departments. To answer your question, my responsibilities are our membership sales and service team, which is both sales and service. We've got a director and a manager. We've got about thirteen total on that team.
We have a group sales team with a director and four group sales reps. We have a ticket office with about seven folks and a director. In our ticket office, we build shows in addition to Lightning events. We have a couple of other venues for which we also build concerts and events. We launched on February 2024 the VSG Academy, which is our inside sales program. We have a manager and four folks who are business development representatives. In total, we push about 29. The way I look at our job is, “Let's fill this place, make everybody happy, and repeat.”
I love that. As we started this off in being people-centric, a long time ago, I was doing business with a pretty big auto dealership. When I first got into sales training, I was working for the old Carnegie training. It was called The Chapman Group. The owner looked at me and said, “The secret to this business is that ESI drives CSI.” I was young enough. I go, “What does ESI mean?” He goes, “Employee Satisfaction Index.” I go, “What does CSI mean?” He goes, “Client Satisfaction Index.”
He then goes, “I take care of my people and they'll take care of the customers. I don't take care of my people and they won't take care of the customers.” It’s very simply put. That's about as simple as you can make it. You take care of the people important to your business and they'll take care of the people who are important to your business. We are doing some math. For you and I, it's about 9 or 10. We’re going to get to that spot soon, but where did you start off? Where are you from? Where did you go to school? If you're not watching the video, there's a Seminole Head behind him. That will tip it off a little bit. Tell us that story a little bit.
Take care of your people, and they’ll take care of your business. People always come first.
I went to school in Tallahassee at Florida State. I am a proud Seminole. I graduated and got a job in sales, not in sports, with a company called Wallace Computer Services. Ironically, we sold everything but computers. I was door-to-door. I get out and go find a big man. I didn't do too well.
Was it B2B?
Lessons Learned In Early Sales Career
Yeah. I get out and sell business forms, office products, and printer stuff. I was bad, and I found out later. I didn't believe in the product. I had no passion for it at all. We had training. They invested in us. It wasn't like it was a bad company. They flew us up to do the full week's training and all that stuff. I didn't have the passion and I knew I had to get out of it.
Luckily, I knew somebody who knew somebody at the Tampa Bay Lightning and I got a thirteen-week role in selling vouchers. They used to call them vouchers. Now, it's a flex plan. They said, “We need somebody for thirteen weeks and then you're done.” It was a part-time gig. I had decided, “I don't know anything about hockey. I'm a Florida boy. I grew up in a little town south of Tampa and Venice.” My claim to fame and what I like to tell folks whenever we have anybody coming in and starting in hockey and they're afraid they don't know the game is that I sold tickets to hockey before I went to a hockey game. You don't need to know the game to sell it. I've learned to love it. A couple of my kids play it.
You go from a full-time job, probably with a decent salary, and they're doing training, and you say, “I suck. I'm not good at it.” You then go, “I'm going to go work part-time for a sports team.” That's what you decided.
I failed.
That's some risk.
Any good salesperson at some time in their life has taken that risk and they said, “I'm going to bet on myself.” That's how we do it. At the time, somebody shared with me, “If you can drive revenue and you can bring in money, they're going to find a way to keep you.” I said, “All right.” In my head, I had the word double. I didn't know about the word of the year thing at that time, which I do now. In my head, it was the word double.
Every challenge is an opportunity to grow. Embrace it, take risks, and always bet on yourself.
It was calls, sales, and activities. If they needed somebody to do the grunt work in the office or to stay late, I did double whatever was asked. At the 12-week of the 13-week mark, my director at the time, a guy by the name of Dan Fralic who was in the NHL for quite a while, asked me to stay on full-time. I was really excited. I called my parents.
You worked your butt off. Were you good at selling those flex plans?
It was great. I loved it. It is crazy. As soon as I had a passion for the product, I would be chatting with people about sports. Since I didn't know the game, I would be asking them to tell me about hockey. At the end of a sports conversation, which I did all the time for my entire life, a credit card came out and they wanted to buy the product. I was like, “This is fun, somewhat easy, and enjoyable.” I knew about three weeks in that I wanted to do it as long as somebody would have me.
I love that. A thirteen-week interview is what that comes down to. You won the interview, right?
I won the job. It was maybe the hardest that I had ever worked to that point, but I wasn't going to give up. I got lucky. Fast forward, my boss, a week later, tells everybody he's moving to Atlanta to start a brand-new franchise called the Atlanta Thrashers, and he asked if I would be interested in going. That's how I ended up in Atlanta. I was on the first sales staff in the history of the Atlanta Thrashers.
Was it a bump-up for you there then because it was more full-time?
Yeah. It was more full-time and I had been part-time. I was lucky enough to do that. We had a year without hockey, so I went to Atlanta Braves games for a long time. I was handing out foam hockey sticks and getting people excited about hockey in the great state of Georgia, which was a challenge and fun. I look back on those times with that franchise and having so few employees, and I see the name of the team launch, the Jersey launch, and the inaugural game. All those are special moments and special memories that you can't replicate. I did ticket sales and group sales there for three seasons.
You're part of a startup. Not everybody gets to be a part of a startup. Hockey in Atlanta is probably a tougher sale. The cool thing, though, is that unlike a lot of hockey markets or sports markets, it wasn't like hockey was a thing in Tampa either. What did you start to acquire then? You did that for three years. Where were you on the board? What did you start to realize about yourself? Describe salesperson Travis because I only know leader Travis.
I took that double mentality. I'm a grinder. That’s what Dan, who brought me up there, asked me to do. He was like, “I want you to set the same example.” I was always putting leads in the system, making sure I was calling, and making sure I was hitting call metrics. I learned some valuable lessons. I love to coach and share this with folks. I usually finish number 2 or number 3, but I was number 2 behind 1 guy who did it very differently than I did. I would love to call him out. He's still selling in our industry. His name is Chris Beaudin.
I was the grinder who was going to make 100 calls a day and going to do whatever I could to get leads in the system. Chris was a networker. It drove me bananas because it always sounded like he was making plans for his next golf outing or who he was going to meet for lunch or dinner. It really motivated me. I kept working harder doing what I knew how to do and I couldn't pass him.
You finally had to be like, “If you can't beat them, join them.” I had to ask him how he was doing it, and he did it a different way. He networked. He was meeting with people, playing golf, and doing lunches. The valuable lesson for me was there are so many different ways that you can approach this business. Do what works best for you. I was able to hybrid my approach a little bit.
At that time coming up, I was learning. I was also learning from the leaders that I was working with about things that I might do and things that I might not do. It was a really formative and valuable time. Working with a startup is also stressful. You have that, “The first game's got to be sold out. What are we going to do? What are we going to do for renewals?” All those conversations that I got to listen in and be a part of were formative for probably the way that I lead.
Go back to that number two thing. The Olympics are on. Everybody strives for the gold. You came right out to say it. When I was talking to Chad Estis, I went, “How are you in sales?” He goes, “I was a solid 4, 5, or 6 at all times early on.” I didn't expect it from him because a lot of people are like, “I was number one all the way through,” which I believe everybody. Being solid number two, did it frustrate you or motivate you?
Both. I wanted to be at the top of the board, especially if I was giving my best. I was giving my best and I still couldn't get over the hump. At some point, it's a respect thing where you’re like, “There's got to be some different way to do this that I don't know.”
In any of those years, did you ever overcome him?
I don't remember that I did. It might have been a week or two that I did, but he had this knack and he was really good. He's still selling, so he’s pretty good at what he does.
I love it. Who does he sell for? I've heard his name before.
The Atlanta Hawks.
I've met him before. I know who he is. He’s a good guy. Shout-out to him. You're there for three years. What's the next opportunity? Is Dan still there? Are you still working for Dan at this point?
He is. He left not too soon after to go to Columbus to start the new franchise up there because of his experience with the Thrashers.
That's where I know his name from.
He was the VP of the Blue Jackets. I ended up hearing about an opportunity. The Smith family sold the Atlanta Falcons to a gentleman by the name of Arthur Blank who owns the Falcons. I heard that there were roles open and that they were hiring the first sales staff in the history of the Atlanta Falcons. They weren't a new franchise. They'd been around since 1966, and this is 2002. They were starting a sales staff because Arthur, who is the cofounder of Home Depot, knew that he wanted a sales team, so he started to build out a sales team.
They never had a sales team up to that point?
A box office.
No wonder that stadium used to be so empty.
Transition To The Atlanta Falcons And Leadership Development
I had an opportunity to join the first sales staff in the history of the Atlanta Falcons. I was a ticket sales manager. We had a team of nine. It was my first chance to lead. What a crazy run that was. We didn't have computers. It was 2002. We sold out of a notebook and crossed off seats we sold with a pencil. It seems like the olden days. It seems like watching black and white TV or something. We did that for six months or so. Over the course of a summer, we sold $100 season tickets. In the NFL, that would seem insane, but it was $10 a game. We sold 20,000 or 30,000 season tickets in the summer and had a ball doing it.
You said you had nine people up underneath you then.
There were nine total. I had three.
You had a small team. Were you a player coach or were you managing? What did that look like?
I had to sell as well. I was a player-coach. I still liked it. I still loved selling.
What did you start to realize, though? You think back to that original team. We can keep them anonymous to protect the integrity of the thing. What was your greatest frustration as a first-time sales leader?
Not everybody does it like you. You think that everybody's going to want to fall in line with exactly how you'd like to do it and maybe do it in the same way. It's really frustrating when they don't. It’s a challenge to figure out that you need to be the one who has an open mind to change, not always them.
That makes total sense. I suspect, too, with the way you described yourself, that you're a 2x-er or 3x-er. You’re like, “I'm going to double the effort. I'm going to work hard.” You probably got some people that early Travis was like, “This person's lazy,” right?
Yes.
If you look back at the guy you were competing against and you probably looked at how he was doing golfing and networking, you're like, “You're lazy. You're not working as hard as I am.”
One hundred percent. I didn't understand it because it wasn't the way that I did it.
That's right. I can attest for you. I know you don't look at things like that now, but that's an early version of you. That's very frustrating. I know you're very competitive with yourself. You're always pushing yourself. You're there. How long are you there? Where do you go from there in Atlanta?
At the Falcons, I sold season tickets there. We had sellouts for several years as well and enjoyed a lot of success. I was given the opportunity to sell suites and club seats. We did for the Georgia Dome, which unfortunately doesn't exist anymore. There were 203 suites and over 4,600 club seats. It was me and one other gentleman. I had 100 suites that I sold, renewed, and did the whole thing, and 2,300 club seats, along with all the accounts. It was a pretty big workload and a challenge.
What I learned from that period in my life, which was probably five years, was that I was really nervous at the beginning of working with some high-income folks and thought, “This person spent six figures on this suite. I need to treat them differently.” You learn as you go along that they're people buying and coming to the games like anybody else or they want to get the ROI for their company. While the dollars may be higher, their expectations are similar. It took me a little bit. That's a valuable lesson that I learned in both customer service and also in sales.
What do you mean it took you a little bit? It took you a little bit to get in the groove?
You'd have those kid gloves. You're thinking, “I don't want to lose this suite. This guy spent all this money. I need to handle it differently.” That's the wrong approach. Take the correct business sense approach, provide the best customer service you can, and hopefully keep them around for a long time. If you're hanging on with this desperation because you think, “There's nobody behind them. Who else would spend this much money on this thing?” The first couple of times, I was apprehensive. By the time I figured it out and got comfortable with it, I realized that it was as fun, if not more fun, to work on high-end deals.
You did that for five years?
I did it for about five years until 2011.
Probably at this point in your career, which is several years ago, it sounds like that's right in the timeline of your next move. What was your core sales philosophy? What was the beginning to be? Talk about your view on leadership. I want you to think with the view on leadership because you haven't talked about how you were managed and led. What couldn't you stand about how you were led and managed? When did you start to adhere to or start to develop? There are three sides to that: sales philosophy, leadership, and how you were led and managed.
Sales philosophy by that time had really evolved into networking referrals. You said it before. Take care of your customers the very best you can. Take care of your people. Learn how we can grow the business. It is thinking about it a different way instead of getting new leads, calling new leads, and selling. There's a lot more to it. How can we prospect? How can we learn? How can we spiderweb and turn this business into a more business kind of thing?
That was unlocked in my brain. Sometimes, I ran into it by accident, and sometimes, it came my way. There's nothing more valuable than that person who calls and says, “Lance told me to call.” You realize how valuable that is. That became my philosophy once I figured that out, and it happened a few times, and I cultivated it.
In terms of leadership, I like affirmation. I'd like to know that we're on the right track. I don't always need the attaboy or the pat on the back. Let me know if we're going in the right direction. If we're not, let me know that, too. That could probably be characterized by I've always enjoyed the feedback and I like to be challenged. I don't like to be bored or to think, “What direction are we going?”
I can say in my twelve years here at Vinik Sports Group and the Tampa Bay Lightning, not 1 day have I been bored, and not 1 day have I not wanted to come to work. It's fun and it's a challenge. The leadership from our CEO, Steve Griggs, permeates that. That's probably why we've had some business success and why we've been able to take care of those great opportunities that have come our way. In terms of leadership styles that I really like, that encompasses.
What I don't like is what most people probably don't like. If you've provided me with an opportunity to do something, a project, or an assignment, please don't check up every ten minutes. Give me some room. The term is micromanaged. Nobody wants to be micromanaged. When it's happening to you, you feel it. It's hard to find a way to manage up in that situation. I work best when I'm given some of that latitude. I have been here.
Leadership isn’t about micromanaging. Give your team room to grow and watch them exceed your expectations.
In addition, that’s especially when you are a leader and you want your team to see or have some presence with the leaders that are above you. I always respect when somebody's willing to provide that presence, come in and be a part of meetings, or roll up their sleeves and get their hands dirty with everybody a little bit. That goes such a long way. Even more as a leader, I see how important that is. You learn things along the way. Maybe that's where your question was leading to what you would do and what you would never do. As you're coming up, you learn from every leader you work with.
At this point, too, it's interesting. You have some out-of-industry experience. You're a seller. You get a little bit of management experience, and then you're back in personal production, where you're selling the premium. You probably have told me this in the past, but I had no clue you have NFL experience, which is interesting in and of itself. You've been with two organizations that were relatively new market entries. The other one with the Falcons was in there, but they'd never had a sales team. You had almost three startups in sports at this point. Who can say that? That's interesting.
I’m really lucky.
No doubt. At no part yet have you been hyper-critical of anybody you worked for, so I sense this level of personal responsibility first. I get on a lot of these calls and they're like, “I was working for a tool,” or, “It wasn't a great culture for me.” You're more like a team of one. What happens in that role? Where do you go?
Growth As A Sales Leader At Vinik Sports Group
My title was premium seating sales manager. I knew a change was coming. I wanted to get into further leadership and be a director, but it looked like that wasn't going to be in the cards. You and I have talked about this a lot before. My first job isn't a salesperson or a manager. My first job is a husband and father. Our family, for family reasons, wanted to move back down here. My wife and I had two young children and we wanted to continue our family. We ended up having a third. We wanted to get down here to be with family, so I started looking a little bit and got a great opportunity to come back to the Lightning and Vidik Sports Group.
I had some people that I knew from Atlanta that had worked down here, two guys by the name of Bill Abercrombie and Mike Harrison. They happened to work here. They said, “Come check it out. Things are a little different.” On my first tour of duty with the Lightning, I loved the sales team that I worked for, but it was only a quick twelve weeks.
Leadership had changed hands 1 time when I was here and 2 times after I left. I had some concerns about moving a family down here and continuing my career. I've been hearing great things about this new ownership and got so lucky. I like to say I stepped into something good. I was really lucky that the owner, Mr. Vinik, and his wife turned out to be amazing people. They've done so many great things for this city and this organization. I've been lucky to be a part of it.
I came down as the director of season ticket membership. I was responsible for service and retention. I had done that with the suites and the club seats before but never on the season ticket side with a complete dedication to service. It was a change, but a welcomed one, and a chance to be at a director level, working for an awesome leader.
Were you replacing somebody there or was that a new position?
There were, at the time, four directors. Ryan Niemeyer, who you know, is a good friend and works for the Pirates. He and I started on the same day. He started as director of groups and I started as director of season ticket membership.
It sounds like they made a change when Vinik took over the sports group that they were restructuring the org a little bit.
That's a fair assessment. Ryan and I came in. We were 2 of the 4 directors on the sales team. I can remember one of the first projects I worked on was getting to 10,000 season tickets. We were like, “How are we going to do it as a team with retention and sales?” We had an all-star squad of leaders, including Jamie Spencer, Ryan Bringger, who's with the Nationals, and Ryan Niemeyer, who's with the Pirates. Ryan Cook was our inside sales director. I was running season ticket membership. We often met about, “How are we going to fill this place?” and whatever tactics you could use. It was formative not only from a tactical but also from a leadership perspective.
This is more of your first role. You've been primarily at the tip of the spear. At Atlanta, you had to keep clients happy, but you were still winning new business. This role becomes primarily a retention role of membership. You understand it, but you got to really start adjusting your mentality a little bit.
We're full menu here. The service team was selling, but it wasn't their primary responsibility. It was a bit of a change. Also, when I first came in, I was handling a lot of customer service calls. I was doing that 5, 6, or 8 a day with the reps. I really wanted to establish early, “I'll take any call you have. Let's talk through it.” I wanted to roll up my sleeves and get in it with them, but that wasn't what I had done for my whole career. I'd done sales calls. I was more on the service side. It was great learning for me not only to learn about the business climate that I was jumping into but also to learn about our staff and how they approach customer service and then retention and sales.
How many people reported to you?
Seven when I first started.
The team's getting bigger. You're almost double-sized. How long do you do that? What adjustments do you start making? How do you start adding tools to your tool belt or philosophies? It seems like you keep a simple philosophy so people can tie in those values. The job gets a little bit more complex and you're doing something that's a little bit different. You have to work through people as opposed to working on it but you're still hands-on. When does philosophy start changing and how long do you do that?
I've been in that role for about five years, a couple of years with Jamie Spencer as our EVP. He is a great culture guy. He delivered in terms of getting the team behind and celebrating all the things we need to celebrate, whether it be little things or big things. I learned a lot about building a culture, making sure that everyone was marching in the same direction, and hitting goals and results.
A guy by the name of Jarrod Dillon came in as our EVP. Jarrod taught us a lot about minding a budget and doing the things that you need to do to tie a budget to revenue and a lot more things in the business sense as well as continuing to build that culture. The leaders that I had a chance to work with as well as Jamie and Jared added to my tool belt. That was really important to me when I was working with them, asking them, and driving, “Specifically, what can I learn? How can I get better?”
I was coached early on in my career. Going into a one-on-one, most folks are going to go in and dump on their boss or say, “Here are all my problems. Help me.” I was coached to say when you leave, always ask, “What can I take off of your plate?” Jarrod, who I probably did it to the most, to his credit, gave me some stuff to work on. Sometimes, they weren't things I wanted to do. Sometimes, it wasn't great. Other times, it was fantastic when I'd get a chance to sit in on a meeting or learn things. It was really formative. I wanted to be challenged and have a chance to grow and learn as I was coming up in the business and watching this organization grow.
What was the toughest thing between how Jamie ran the shop and Jarrod did? They are two very different types of leaders. I know them both.
They are, and both are great leaders. That's a really tough question. You stung me with a good one. Jarrod is hands-on. He'll answer you at the drop of a hat. He's always accessible. He knows the business forward and backwards. It’s not that Jamie didn't. Jamie probably delegated a bit more. I loved working for both of them. I’d work for both of them again.
It sounds like Jarrod is starting to expand your business knowledge a little bit, and you are starting to take on more responsibility.
Adapting To Different Leadership Styles
Correct. To his credit, Jamie was with us for 2 seasons, and Jarrod and I worked together for 7. That is correct. Jarrod was investing in me and giving me an opportunity to grow and learn more.
I don't know enough about Jamie to say that he wasn't this way. Jarrod also could challenge. He’d require you to think and he’d debate with you. What did you start to realize there about yourself? You better defend yourself. If you're going to come to a meeting, you better be prepared. He is going to end up asking a question about something that you might not have had in front of you. Talk to me about that.
Well said. I appreciate that and am thankful that he challenged us that way. The first couple of times, it probably surprised me, but then I knew to have your stuff together. I'm sure he'll read this and we'll have a funny laugh about it after, but we had many debates. We would do it behind closed doors. He's never going to dress you down in a meeting, and I respected that even sometimes when I might've been wrong. I knew if I went into his office, we were going to shut the door and be like, “Let's have a debate.”
One thing I always appreciated is after seven years and many debates. I don't know that I can even count on one hand the number of times where he gave the, “We're doing it this way because that's the way I want to do it.” There was always a justified reason. There were times when we might have come to an impasse, and then the next day, he said, “You were right. Let's do it this way.” I really appreciated that. You had to have all of your ducks in a row. You had to be ready for the conversation and the debate. It was never personal. We had some good ones.
You never harbored it, but you probably had to come in early and go, “I hold my standings with him.” He was one of those things where he knew the numbers and you couldn't get away with not knowing the numbers.
You got to know your business. That's great. Our CEO, Steve Griggs, has a background in ticketing. He knows all the numbers too. That has required me to be sharp and make sure I know where we stand on all our business metrics.
In those seven years under Jarrod, what things do you start to acquire? Your role started to expand. I'm not saying this rapidly, but to give everybody a perspective, Jarrod right now runs the Orlando MLS team. Ryan Bringger has an equivalent role that Travis does. You mentioned him at the Nationals. Ryan Niemeyer, who you worked with, is equal to both of you over at the Pirates. Ryan Cook has a pretty big role with an auto dealership. He walked out of the industry, but he has a pretty big marketing and sales role there. You're amongst some folks who can manage and lead with Jarrod. How do you start to slowly acquire some responsibility?
First of all, it was to take on whatever responsibilities were assigned. Ask for some more. Do it with a smile. Do your best. I often tell this to our folks. They're like, “Tell us some of those projects.” I was asked to join the parking committee. Jarrod told me, “Go sit in these meetings. I don't want to know about parking. Tell me what I need to know. I got enough other stuff going on.” I said, “Got it.” I walked out of his office and I went, “Did I get assigned parking?” I then said, “If I'm going to do it, I'm going to give it my best.”
I'd sit in some of the parking meetings early on. Around our arena, there was a lot of construction. There was a lot going on with traffic. That is a customer service problem if it's a mess. Anybody knows that if you don't fix parking, you're messing up the start and end of everyone's game day. I would be sitting in these meetings and I'd look around and I was the lowest-titled person in the meeting. It didn't matter that we were talking about parking. I could think about how they strategized.
We had to work with the city. I was learning all those things about how we connected with folks outside of our building and how we treated vendors. I got to write some communications because I knew more about it. That project took off. I still helped work on that. It’s a massive advantage. That would be my advice to young leaders who are trying to figure out, “How can I get ahead?” It might not be parking, but whatever it is for you, ask for those extra opportunities. If you don't get one that sounds really fun, cool, or sexy, take it anyway and make it your best.
A lot of younger folks, when they ask me questions, I'm always like, even in my own company, “Take more responsibility. Don't always worry about if you're going to get a title hit. Don't always worry if you're going to get paid more money.” Money never leads. It always follows. It’s the same with titles and stuff like that. That's how you make your bones. That's how you create your brand. If you always got your hand out or you always have your hat out, then you look like that person, and that's not what you want. You start getting additional responsibility. What was that next move for you? You're the director, and Jarrod comes in. What’s that next bump for you?
Jarrod was promoted to chief revenue officer and promoted me to vice president of ticket sales and service. I had the opportunity to run our sales and service team as well as inside sales at the time. Quickly, we realized because of where the business was and our sellout streak had gotten going that our sales team didn't have a whole lot to sell. We had to make the business decision to combine the teams into a sales and service team. It has been that way ever since. It’s what the business told us.
What I was really appreciative of both Steve Griggs and Jarrod Dillon at the time was that they listened. They were like, “We're not going to have a new business team. How is that possible?” What I explained and pitched at the time was, “Our business climate doesn't allow it. We don't have stuff for these guys to go hunt down and sell, but we can be a full menu sales and service team because we have too many accounts to service.” The main point here is that leadership listened. We were able to have open conversations and do what was best for the business. That's what I was thinking at the time. That has driven my confidence to be able to bring new ideas to senior leadership.
I'd love for you to talk about this a little bit because you also have a unique perspective. For years, you guys have had a little bit of a waitlist. You'd have to convert those people over and keep them engaged and you may not have something to sell them. We were talking about this in the pre-game. You said, “If things for some reason don't go as well as the climate gets worse for us, we have the ability to pivot some of our folks into a direct business development team.”
I always remember having conversations even when Niemeyer, Jarrod, and you were there, like, “If we have to crank up the group sales team.” Of all the teams in the NHL that probably didn't need training because the team was doing well, you guys always pumped up the training when you didn't need it. There's always this readiness formula. Talk about that a little bit. I don't think that's practical. From your end, there's some foresight there. Is it that you are trying to lower risk? Are you ready for DEF DEFCON 5 if it does come? Talk about that because it's an interesting concept.
We want to continue to invest in training. We want people to stay sharp. We want to make sure that those skills are ready. We don't want to get caught flatfooted. If things were to start to slide, there might be a couple of cracks along the way and you can make excuses for it. You look back 6 months or 1 year later and go, “Now we're in a real problem.” If you're continually looking and seeing where we should improve or where there might be challenges and you're addressing them, then hopefully, you don't get caught where you look back and go, “We're in a really tough situation.”
We know we are very fortunate. The community has supported this team for so long. Ownership and leadership have given us the resources to do what we need to do. Sports is a cycle. While I would love to be in the Stanley Cup final or Playoffs every year, it's probably not likely. We've had people join us from other teams and they'll say, “I've been in sports for eight years and I've made the Playoffs once.” We've been in 10 of the last 11. It’s not god-given every year to be in the Playoffs or to advance in the Playoffs. When that change happens, we want to be prepared. Does that mean I don't want to continue selling? I want every game sold out. I want to be in the Playoffs. We want to make sure that we're ready if there's a change.
You're ready to be agile or pliable at all times. I feel like you're always talking about it too. You're always talking to us about it. As a matter of fact, and I don't overplay this, I know one of my trainers was working with you guys. Even though it was a pretty decent-sized virtual session, it's this constant, never-ending improvement.
Let’s turn a little bit. I'll invoke this. Jarrod gets an opportunity outside the NHL and gets a bigger role. He moves on. The organization is looking around. I don't remember exactly how this went down, so I'm curious. Probably anytime that happens, somebody like you or in any company is like, “What does this mean? Are they going to bring somebody in for his role? What does that mean to me? Am I going to get a shot at that?” Talk about that a little bit because I vaguely remember I was having a couple of conversations. It wasn't an, “Oh crap,” thing because I've never felt you've ever panicked anytime I've dealt with you, but I remember having a conversation about it at least.
Anytime there's leadership change like that, especially somebody that you've worked with that long and you know that well, as Jarrod and I had a great working relationship and still a great friendship, you're concerned. I was. We've had some leadership come in and a little bit of change. I've been given the opportunity to advance a little bit and take on some additional responsibilities with our group sales team and our ticket sales team.
Was that the title bump?
Yeah. That's really what I think has kept me active. Not bored is working closely with our group sales team, learning more about the ticket office team, getting more involved in the concert and event side, and learning that big world. I was looking. In our arena in 2023, we held 46 hockey games, including the Playoffs. We held over 70 events. That is booking the building and a busy place. There's a lot to do. Do I want to continue to grow my career? Absolutely. I know I've had the great opportunity to learn from some awesome leaders along the way. I worked for a great organization and had great leadership here. There's still plenty to learn. There's still plenty to do, and I've been doing it for 25 years.
When that change happened, it was interesting. They didn't replace the CRO role, did they?
Not initially. We ended up hiring a chief commercial officer.
That is not quite a CRO role.
Correct. It was a little different.
Do you get more of a seat at the table?
Yes. It's great. I'm lucky that I work with CEO Steve Griggs who knows tickets and whoever's in the role. He and I have established a great relationship in terms of talking about the games and things coming up and built up a lot of trust. One thing we do is hold a Monday ticketing strategy meeting during the season. Our CEO sits in that quite often. Whoever is our C-level exec on the revenue side will sit in that. It's great. It's a conversation about, “How do we get this sold out? Let's get down to tactics.”
What a great learning opportunity for the next generation of managers and directors to hear that all the time. That commitment from the organization, when everybody sees, “Tickets are the lifeblood. If we sell out, everything hopefully gets a little bit easier,” is a commitment from the top. That hasn't changed in my time here.
As we bring this bird down for landing, when you look at your overall leadership strategy and philosophy, what is it in two sentences?
Final Thoughts On Leadership And Success
We said it before. It’s to find the right people, invest in them, grow them, and have fun.
If you had to take your leadership style and make a cliche, what would be your cliche? I put you on the spot because I didn't tell you I was going to ask you this.
You really did put me on the spot. It's so simple. For me and for everyone else, do your best.
It's not like you haven't said that all throughout this conversation, so you bring it there pretty easily. The quote of this whole thing is you go back to the guy you were competing with at the Thrashers and you go, “I was giving my very best.” That's exactly what you said. The last time I heard that line was, and not that it was a line for you, when Brooks said in the movie Miracle, “Thanks for giving me your very best before we made that last cut.” You go, “I gave my very best, but I couldn't beat him.” You harbor no ill will to it either because you're finally like, “Tell me what you're doing. I'm curious now because I'm giving my very best.” That makes sense.
I know you have kids. We talked about your kids. You've got some kids who play hockey. You're living the best life that I'm watching. You and your wife travel the country a little bit with those kids and play a little hockey and some sports. If you had a niece or nephew, and maybe you do, at 8 or 9 years old and you're sitting on the edge of a dock with both your feet hanging, they say, “Uncle Trav, what does it mean to be successful?” I almost wonder what you're going to say here, but what would you say?
I would say 3 things, and I already said 1 of them. If you want to get there, it's easy, but it's hard work. You got to show up. The best kind of ability is availability. Do that first. I already said number two. Do your best, and you know why. Number three, be a good teammate. Many problems happen at work because people get in these dust-ups or things with a teammate or they think somebody's out to get them, or whatever it is. Be a good teammate. I wish somebody would've told me that again when I was finishing number two and I was so mad and said, “That guy's kicking your butt. Go over, pat them on the back, and say, “Awesome job. I'm going to get you next time.” If you can do those three things all the time without fail, you're going to be successful.
It’s interesting as an interviewer. If you're all reading this, I have tried six times to get Travis to talk about himself, and every time, he turns the boomerang back and puts the light back on his people. I want to let you know. It's not frustrating, and I'm good at what I do. Every time, you've turned it back. If you're the captain of a hockey team and you go grab the cup, you're giving the cup to somebody else first before you go carry that thing. That is the analogy.
Last two questions. Shame on me. I've known you for years. I always pegged you more as the kind of guy who came up through service the whole way. There's nothing wrong with that. I never asked. I'm embarrassed. What's that song you play in your head to get a deal or what song did you play in your head to get the deal? What's that crank-up music for you?
Hit the Lights by Metallica. That’s my first choice.
I would've never expected it. Last thing. You can't include my books because I know it'd be a number 1 or 2. If you were going to gift a book to somebody important to you or somebody who got that next big promotion or there’s something big going on in their life, or they're buying a company, what book would you gift to them?
I'm not saying this because of our past, but How to Win Friends and Influence People.
I appreciate that.
I read it once a year.
As do I. It's a wonderful read on keeping it simple like this whole thing is. Keep it really simple.
That's right.
To smile is not very hard. Thank you so much. I am so glad we got this done. What a great conversation. What an easy conversation too. What a very simple, clear, and transparent conversation. No twisted sister here. I love it. Thank you. I appreciate it.
Thanks as always.
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